useful form data

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Data form 'required' property UI design
Edited: 18 Mar 2010 09:05 by: leiger
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Which aspects of this design do people want first?
Edited: 11 Nov 2009 12:44 by: leiger
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wiki fields should support the same features as a page that doesn't use data forms »
Long term ideas »
Field values depending on previous field »
Date fields »
Will this lead to a semantic wiki? »
Displaying the page title in the form »
Attribute for page-title »
Attribute for page-title »
The "image" data type »
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wiki fields should support the same features as a page that doesn't use data forms
Edited: 11 Mar 2010 01:55 by: leiger
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scottplan wrote on 16 Mar 2010 12:25

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm thinking the question deserves its own subthread.

I've tested forms pretty thoroughly, with the hope that I can get to my holy grail: a form that takes what users give it, but reverts to a semi-sophisticated default when they don't. I've mapped it all out, with examples, and I'm just not there yet — the green cells are successes, the red ones are obstacles.

• For one thing, I can't do much with the data I collect via %%form_data{field}%%. I can't turn it into a link, pass it as a _template parameter, or plug it into a tricky include. Is this because form fields (symbols?) are compiled later?
• Default values are kludgy. Assuming form fields are eventually living, useful pieces of data, I'd like the resulting page to adapt when certain data is missing. For instance, if a user doesn't provide an email, let's show their username instead. If a user doesn't point to an offsite image, let's look for one attached to the page instead. I'd prefer not to show to the user any @@ (from a tricky include), or :first (even if I did, they don't work anyway). Instead the _template should be able to respond to the data and revert to the right code. Can't do that yet.
• I think I could get there if includes recognized the data passed to them via forms. I could pass a null value, then ignore it and assign a default value instead.

I'm open to suggestion for how to work with the existing compile sequence. But if there's no way to get there, I'd surely appreciate a way to make form data more useful.

So I'm wondering. James wanted forms to be accessible via CSIs. I want form data to be available for includes. Is it possible to have it both ways?

Start a new sub-thread

Comments: 24

Useful Form Data

GoVegan 16 Mar 2010 18:17

Hey Scott,

Fortunately forms ARE accessible via CSIs now, after a Wikidot update.

But form data with includes… it can be done. I don't have time right now, but I'll show you in 12 hours.

Having said that, there are things that CAN NOT be done with %% variables and includes, due to this bug.

Re: Useful Form Data

scottplan 17 Mar 2010 12:32

But form data with includes… it can be done.

I'm very interested. Looking forward to seeing what you've got!

Re: Useful Form Data

GoVegan 18 Mar 2010 02:11

Aww, I know I said I'd show you in 12 hours… but it's a work-in-progress. I feel reluctant to show something that isn't finished yet.

Sorry!

But it is really cool !!!

Re: Useful Form Data

scottplan 18 Mar 2010 11:43

The suspense is killing me. Thanks for taking it on.

Re: Useful Form Data

scottplan 28 Mar 2010 14:23

Coming back to this again.

James, I've read your include how-to's with interest, and your discussion with Rurwin taught me some nuances. But none of it seems to engage directly with this question. How to include form data so it's useful?

Specifically, can I get the include to ignore a null value entered in a form?

If I can get through this question, my life as a wiki-admin will be ever so much easier. Thanks for your help.

Last edited on 28 Mar 2010 15:04 by scottplan Show more

Are data forms on the back burner?

scottplan 09 Apr 2010 00:57

Things have been pretty quiet around these parts. No discussion over the last couple weeks.

I've taken the winter/spring to retool our site, and I've engaged pretty actively with dataforms/templates/listpages/includes, hoping to turn them into a seamless tool for our neighborhood outreach. I was really hoping to have a working model for our wiki's centerpiece using data forms. But my window for this big retrofit is coming to a close, and it looks like I'll have to resort to basic includes instead.

If there's something in the works soon, I'd love to know about it. Otherwise this'll just be our road not taken.

TeRq 09 Apr 2010 06:22

We are finishing data form file field, then work with data forms will be halted for a some time due to other stuff like UI simplifying. When we made planned improvements for wide range wikidot users we will back to data forms again.

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

GoVegan 09 Apr 2010 07:22

We are finishing data form file field

Could you please also work on a URL field too, before halting data form progress?

TeRq 09 Apr 2010 07:31

Yes, its quite easy to do :) it's like a sneeze in relation to the file upload field.

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

like sneezing

scottplan 09 Apr 2010 13:51

That sounds positive — thanks Bartłomiej.

4 specific questions:

1. with a URL field, would the compiler successfully render [[image %%form_data{ImageURL}%%]]?
2. will a URL field accept email addresses?
3. will a URL field allow for custom matching? (require http:// prefix or [e-mail] or blank)
4. any way to auto-detect null values, and to insert alternatives?

Re: like sneezing

leiger 09 Apr 2010 15:50

any way to auto-detect null values, and to insert alternatives?

That would be very useful.

---

~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)

Re: like sneezing

TeRq 17 Apr 2010 17:32

ad 1. if %%form_data{ImageURL}%% will be url type field, it will work,
ad 2 probably yes, as this:

http://username:password@hostname/path?arg=value#anchor

is also a valid url
ad 3. rater not, but considerable,
ad 4. just guessing:

[[if %%form_data{ImageURL}|isTrue%%]]
 // show if true
[[else]]
 // show if false
[[/if]]

if %%form_data{ImageURL}|isTrue%% give us string "true" its show us "// show if true" well, maybe its to difficult
designt http://projects.wikidot.com/thread:233 could help as a little see "Text field filters"

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

Re: like sneezing

leiger 18 Apr 2010 00:29

If statements would be really powerful.

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~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)

Re: like sneezing

scottplan 18 Apr 2010 13:20

Conditionals would be insanely helpful.

• an [[if]] tag seems most accessible. But is it in the immediate pipeline? Would the compile sequence allow it to engage with form data?
• It seems like the text field filter would work for me. Is there a timeline for putting that into place?
• Otherwise Erich's "tricky includes" are the tool that's available. I know you guys have thought about reworking the parser — is that front- or back-burner right now?

Re: like sneezing

TeRq 18 Apr 2010 15:56

An [[if]] tag is just an idea… now a days we thought about "beta stage" for some wiki syntax/features (possible back incompatibilities in next development steps, even cancel/delete of whole idea)
We could bring some features in "beta stage" faster… maybe an [[if]] tag to (can't say when exactly)
In nearest pipe line is ("UI improvement" and "monthly payment"), then we consider what is most important for next steps.

is that front- or back-burner right now?

have no idea what it means

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

Re: like sneezing

scottplan 18 Apr 2010 17:02

OK — that URL field might be the best I can hope for then, given your other priorities. I'd be really open to beta testing, assuming it could be applied on a per-site basis.

"front-burner" "back-burner" is an idiom about the immediacy of something. If your pot of soup won't be done for awhile and can simmer without any attention, you push it to the back burner & work on other things at the front of the stove.

"Like sneezing" must be a Polish idiom. There, we've traded.

leiger 09 Apr 2010 07:43

We are finishing data form file field

Awesome :)

As the 'image' field is similar in function to the 'file' field, will that be completed at the same time, or will it be completed after the UI improvements?

If it is not going to be done soon, I can use the new 'file' field as a workaround for now… (so I can easily wait), but would prefer to have both at the same time (assuming that it isn't too much extra work for you to add 'image' as well)

Cheers,
Shane

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~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)

TeRq 09 Apr 2010 07:56

:> we will see.

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

leiger 09 Apr 2010 08:10

Like I said, doesn't bother me either way, just wondering :)

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~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)

TeRq 21 Apr 2010 11:22

Cant finish URL field due to php bug
I also try to use regular expression:

^(?#Protocol)(?:(?:ht|f)tp(?:s?)\:\/\/|~\/|\/)?(?#Username:Password)(?:\w+:\w+@)?(?#Subdomains)(?:(?:[-\w]+\.)+(?#TopLevel Domains)(?:com|org|net|gov|mil|biz|info|mobi|name|aero|jobs|museum|travel|[a-z]{2}))(?#Port)(?::[\d]{1,5})?(?#Directories)(?:(?:(?:\/(?:[-\w~!$+|.,=]|%[a-f\d]{2})+)+|\/)+|\?|#)?(?#Query)(?:(?:\?(?:[-\w~!$+|.,*:]|%[a-f\d{2}])+=?(?:[-\w~!$+|.,*:=]|%[a-f\d]{2})*)(?:&(?:[-\w~!$+|.,*:]|%[a-f\d{2}])+=?(?:[-\w~!$+|.,*:=]|%[a-f\d]{2})*)*)*(?#Anchor)(?:#(?:[-\w~!$+|.,*:=]|%[a-f\d]{2})*)?$

from this site, but it's not good enough.

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

GoVegan 21 Apr 2010 12:49

What's wrong with using a regular expression? I mean, why is it not good enough?

TeRq 21 Apr 2010 13:06

It just don't allow some valid URL-s and right now i don't have time to improve those regexp. But if someone improve it, I will use it. Here is RFC 1738.

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)

valid URL matching

scottplan 09 May 2010 14:29

TeRq's issue is out of my league. But it sure would be nice to have a URL field. Can anyone else address this question please?

TeRq 09 May 2010 15:12

I think we add those REGEXP, and we improve it later… PHP team sad that this bug is fixed (in PHP 5.2.14-dev, in 5.2.13 to… but wont work in my MAC PHP 5.2.13).

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Bartłomiej Bąkowski @ Wikidot Inc.
';.;' TeRq (Write PM)